Bitcoin Akbar

[craigs]

So technically the money is created out of thin air, so it doesn't have any value. See I wouldn't except bitcoins if I knew they ware created out of thin air. Then again, I could start a profitable business generating bitcoins on some high end servers?

Sound a bit like what the Fed does...

exactly. it is very much like national money.

It has no intrinsic value, but since there are people willing to trade bitcoin for goods or services, and especially for other currencies, it acquires a value.

At the moment it is worth 5$

http://bitcoinwatch.com/


One side note: if casually you would have bought 50$ worth of Bitcoin 10 months ago, today you would have roughly 50.000$

[Ivan]

Yes, forget to generate anything with a CPU. Nvidia cards arent good at this either.


Anyhow you can buy Bitcoin, or sell things for Bitcoin.


At the moment a Bitcoin is worth around 5$ and in the last 24 hour roughly 300.000$ worth of Bitcoin was traded.

Bitcoin is very good to transfer value. Sending Bitcoin is totally free, and if you have a Bank account, converting to and from Bitcoin cost less than 0.5% (depending on volume).

They are going to revolutionize the web, by making microtransactions feasible. You finally can pay maybe 0.5$ for the membership in a site.

You forget to mention that it's very unstable currency - one day it's value jumped from 5$ to 17$. Another day it jumped from 17$ to 0,01$ (sic!).

Oh, and bitcoins are harder and harder to make nowadays - they require thousands times more computing power than it used to be, meaning people who started early can be very rich.
How to steal from geeks? Make open source piramid scheme.

[craigs]

You forget to mention that it's very unstable currency -

Please define unstable currency.

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in exchange volume?

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in use?

A currency which experiences great inflation?

Then the answer is no.

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in value?

Then if we look at the global market, lately the Euro and Dollar have been as much unstable as the Bitcoin.

In any case, if you are worried, as soon as you receive the BTC you can sell them for $.

You can use Bitcoin as a vector for value. It's still much cheaper and more practical than PayPal, or any other existing service.

one day it's value jumped from 5$ to 17$. Another day it jumped from 17$ to 0,01$ (sic!).

Actually, it never experienced such great fluctuation. Since it went above 4$ last May, it never went below.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgo...gSzm1g10zm2g25

Oh, and bitcoins are harder and harder to make nowadays - they require thousands times more computing power than it used to be,

that's how they are designed to be

meaning people who started early can be very rich.

Yes, it's called investing. It's a common practice among human people.

How to steal from geeks? Make open source piramid scheme.

You know why this is not true?

Because Bitcoin is completly Open Source and P2P.

There exist no computer or person or server that control or manipulate Bitcoin.

Like a P2P network: you can kill as many nodes as you want, but as long as there is still one player, the network can be rebuilt.

[Ivan]

Please define unstable currency.

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in exchange volume?

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in use?

A currency which experiences great inflation?

Then the answer is no.

A currency which experiences great fluctuations in value?

Then if we look at the global market, lately the Euro and Dollar have been as much unstable as the Bitcoin.

Even zimbawe dollars doesn't lose 99,95% of it's value in single day. (19 June 2011 - breach of mtgox servers)
Imagine buying 100 bitcoins for 1700$ on 18 june, only to find they are worth 1$ the next day. If that isn't unstable currency then i don't know what is.

You can use Bitcoin as a vector for value. It's still much cheaper and more practical than PayPal, or any other existing service.

Tell me one aspect in which paying with bitcoins is more practical than using paypal.

Yes, it's called investing. It's a common practice among human people.

No, it's called pyramid scheme. It fills all requirements:
-Product being sold has no real value - you're basically exchanging computer-generated hash numbers for real goods
-people who joined early reap most of the profits - like i mentioned earlier, it's thousands times harder to find new hash now, than it used to be - meaning people who started early could get literally millions of bitcoins, keep them stashed, and now sell them as they got more "valuable"
-network encourages "inviting"/"promoting" - in normal business you try to keep competition away from your product - bitcoin users actievly seek out new users for their system, since without losers buying out bitcoin for them or shops accepting them bitcoins would be as worthless as when the system opened. Heck, even you came here and started spamming, as this forum is nowhere near related to topic in question.

You know why this is not true?

Because Bitcoin is completly Open Source and P2P.

Like a P2P network: you can kill as many nodes as you want, but as long as there is still one player, the network can be rebuilt.

I see absolutely no connection with my post part you quoted and your answer.

There exist no computer or person or server that control or manipulate Bitcoin.

As evidenced before - single server hack can bring down whole "monetary system" for few days




Oh, i forgot one thing - those "coins" doesn't come out of thin air - as hashes are harder and harder to obtain, mining earnings get close to electricity bills. Of course it doesn't concern nerd basement dwelers whose parent pay the bills, but for people that actually support themselves it's not that profitable - especialy if you count Amortization costs of high-end GPU cards operating at 100% capacity. I have two high-end PCs, one with SLI nVidia cards and tried mining some time ago - bought some WoW subscriptions and shit from it, but temperature in my room was unbeliveably hot after letting it run overnight...

[craigs]

Even zimbawe dollars doesn't lose 99,95% of it's value in single day. (19 June 2011 - breach of mtgox servers)

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgo...gSzm1g10zm2g25

It never dropped below 4$.

Maybe you are confusing the fact that for one afternoon, a bug (not an hack) in the MtGox site showed a wrong price. But You couldnt buy or sell at that price.


You are also confusing MtGox and Bitcoin.

MtGox is one of the existing exchanges. When It was hacked, several millions were stolen. Still the owner of MtGox decided to take out of his pocket all the funds needed to reimburse the customers.


Bitcoin is indipendent from MtGox. If tomorrow MtGox disappers, Bitcoin will still exist and will still be traded on other exchanges (tradehill.com , bitcoin7.com, and many more)

Tell me one aspect in which paying with bitcoins is more practical than using paypal.

1) Microtransaction: Bitcoin is totally free. No fixed or variable cost. So if I want to give you 1$, you receive 1$. Imagine what could this do to the internet


2) Non refundable transaction: Being in the software business, I had the problem in the past of people buying my downloadable goods, and then asking for a refund. PayPal always fucked me. Bitcoin instead is not refundable.

3) Transaction against PayPal AUP: many services forbid the sale of adult content, or other actions like currency exchange. Bitcoin has no AUP or stupid agreement.

4) Anonymous transactions: WHen you dont want to expose your real name


5) International transfers: if both parties have a bank account, you can send Dollars to Euros paying only 0.4%, all included.

Today, if I want to transfer Euros to my US account, or Dollars To my EU account, I pay 20-30$ plus the conversion fee (1-5%)

6) Token Currency: Bitcoin is a very good framework to build a token payment system. Imagine a USB or NFC key to buy autobus tickets or goods in a vending machine.

7) Mobile Currency: Bitcoin put us one step closer to using our mobile devices as wallets.

Google made a preliminary version:

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/

The fact alone that google believe in this, convinced me to start using Bitcoin.


8) In game Purchases: this is a subset of microtransactions. You can now buy 1$ worth of ingame goods, either from the server or other users!

The last two points might be offensive to some:


9) Tax Evasion: It's undeniable that since government cant track you, then it's easier to elude taxation.

5) Illegal transactions:

http://gawker.com/5805928/the-underg...****imaginable

No, it's called pyramid scheme. It fills all requirements:
-Product being sold has no real value - you're basically exchanging government bonds for real goods
-people who joined early reap most of the profits - like i mentioned earlier, in the US it's thousands times harder to get richer, than it used to be - meaning people who come early to the US could get literally millions of Dollars, keep them stashed, and now sell them as they got more "valuable"
-Government encourages "inviting"/"promoting" - in normal business you try to keep competition away from your product - Governemnt actievly seek out new taxpayers for their system, since without losers paying taxes for them or shops accepting them Dollars would be as worthless as when the system opened.

I fixed it for you

Heck, even you came here and started spamming, as this forum is nowhere near related to topic in question.

I sell webspace for Bitcoin. That's why I'm here.

And I'm sorry you think I'm a spammer.

As evidenced before - single server hack can bring down whole "monetary system" for few days

the network is mathematically secure. Which means that if you could compromise the Bitcoin Network, then you would also be able to enter the Visa or Mastercard network

Oh, i forgot one thing - those "coins" doesn't come out of thin air - as hashes are harder and harder to obtain, mining earnings get close to electricity bills. Of course it doesn't concern nerd basement dwelers whose parent pay the bills, but for people that actually support themselves it's not that profitable - especialy if you count Amortization costs of high-end GPU cards operating at 100% capacity. I have two high-end PCs, one with SLI nVidia cards and tried mining some time ago - bought some WoW subscriptions and shit from it, but temperature in my room was unbeliveably hot after letting it run overnight...

Yes, at the moment mining is unprofitable, and will stay unprofitable until the bitcoin will reach a value of 20$, or if you already have the hardware.

Remember that power can be bought for as low as 0.007 $/kwh, when purchased in bulk (think datacenters close to nuclear power)

[Ivan]

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgo...gSzm1g10zm2g25

It never dropped below 4$.

See that blank space in the middle of june on that chart? That's when it happened. mtgox reverted all transaction from that period as a result.

a bug (not an hack)

http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/the-mtgox-attack

1) Microtransaction: Bitcoin is totally free. No fixed or variable cost. So if I want to give you 1$, you receive 1$. Imagine what could this do to the internet

Send money as gifts. no sending or receiving fees.

2) Non refundable transaction: Being in the software business, I had the problem in the past of people buying my downloadable goods, and then asking for a refund. PayPal always fucked me. Bitcoin instead is not refundable.

Look at this from opposite site - you buy something and seller sends you a potato in parcel instead of for example cellphone - with bitcoin you have no way to track him down or get your money back.

7) Mobile Currency: Bitcoin put us one step closer to using our mobile devices as wallets.

Google made a preliminary version:

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/

The fact alone that google believe in this, convinced me to start using Bitcoin.

You do realize that this is not a project made by google, only hosted using google code service ( just like sourceforge)?

I fixed it for you

You can't answer this so you're masking it with irony. how mature.

And I'm sorry you think I'm a spammer.

You're advertising service in "introductions" section...

[Sp32]

You can create a thread to promote/support bitcoin users in the forums, so please answer/ask questions there, closed as it's getting a bit too much of a discussion in the introductory.

Anyway, welcome Cragis