bring change to hosting section to prevent scammers

[ajinkya9]

All I have really seen is people saying "KWWH should do something to protect us from scammers". Now my question to you is thus;

Why should they?

This forum is provided free of charge to anybody who wishes to use it to come and learn about a huge range of topics such as hosting, DMCA, SEO and much much more. Not once is it said or written that KWWH will hold your hand while you learn how to walk! Getting KWWH directly involved with hosting issues is quite frankly stupid and just asking for trouble, it will/would open them up for all sorts of grief and could/would probably do far more harm than good.

That being said nobody wants to be scammed but it is your own responsibility to watch your own back and not KWWH's or its staff. I was once scammed in the past and I have learned my lesson from it, if you don't learn from your mistakes then you are doomed to always fail. KWWH and its staff do all they can already about banning scammers etc when the situation warrants it but they should never be held accountable for actions of anybody here who sell hosting (or any other service) which would be the case if they get involved. It could rapidly turn in to everybody bitching at KWWH and the staff because they were too stupid to be scammed in the first place. Staff would end up with being constantly pestered by childish members with PM's about "ooh such and such scammed me, you must do something because I am too stupid and only I matter at this point in time so you must focus on me and me alone". Now OK granted that is possibly a little over the top but you get the point

Remember if it is to good to be true then chances are that it isn't true.

JGM.

That's where the problem is.
Imagine what would happen if tomorrow some new Webmaster site comes up, that has Free Membership, Verified Webhosts (Few hosts but less scam), Uploader exchange, Free uploading bots etc.
I am sure people will move away from KWWH.

You could argue the same for the WHCMS rule.
People buying hosting, should be smart enough to check if a Webhost has a valid WHCMS license.

You might as well say, there should not be a Password Retrieval system on KWWH.
People should be smart enough to save their password securely in multiple places.

See the trend here ?

I think that:

There should be ranks for hosts (even use some css). Every host should have one thread, not a thread/offer.
If that thread is getting older and the host is still alive, after 6 months it should get a higher rank, after 12 months, it should get even higher, etc...
Every rank should have different colors, or something written in the title like ( Newbie host - Half-year host - Yearold host - Veteran host etc.)

Also in the thread there should be a timeline which would be editable only by moderators. There should be written every huge problems by user complains which are trustable, like:
2011.11.16 - Boxslots hacked, lot of user lost their sites
2011.11.31 - Boxslots hacked, user data lost
2010.10.20 - Boxslots down for 11 days

Etc.

Also, there should be a user rating system, five star method, which is only available for users with 50+ posts, so even new hosts would have the chance to get good ratings, but clearly, old hosts will have an upper hand... BUT this way with the timeline every of their huge mistakes will be there above the first post.

The best idea I have heard till now.
It will be somewhat like Katz.cd

You are more likely to find a better download link from a 4* or a 5* Katz site than a 1* site.
Same idea can be applied here.
I wish el_j were here

[EL-Warez]

You have to understand that many reasons can cause a host to be newbie.And i dont think that KWWH has so big team to check such things.
You saw what happened with RS and Boxslots.These companies were here for long time.Most providers was using RS but they left.
Even a host that is 6 months here you can rely on him cause of time.

Clients must check the host better.Everything counts in hosting.Also the more expensive the better is not stable.

Example: I was looking for RDA,i checked all threads 1 by 1..Realized that one company was good.Chose that and i had to pay 35$..after 2-3 days problem occured..Response?After 2 days.then again and again and again.half month with no use of RDA.I even asked for a refund but they always tried to keep me.But i left.I gave them the 35$ and now i am with a host not so well known but i pay half of 35$ and i have better provider.

All things matter and there is no way to keep on all these.

[JGM]

There is one way, giving special ranks to hosting company like file hosting,but the hosting company should pay a deposit money to KWWH, and they can take it back when the company is stable enough.

Giving special ranks like that is getting KWWH involved.

aah!!
this topic is heavily going off topic.

Guys please understand my request.

I asked if any of us, member or staff can think of a way, which could overcome the problems of scammers.
a way which could reduce the risk of scammers.
one which is sensible.
why shud KWWH help with this? maybe because they cate for their members ???

adding lines of prevention is not stupid, I feel its good.

in a way, it helps goodhosts grow well, and bad hosts to just get lost.

am sure everyone needs the chance to grow, but we shud stop as many cheap ones scamming us

its just a discussion here, trying to find a way, please dont go off topic or revenge this topic

thanks

The only certain way is to remove anything and everything to do with selling, by doing so no transactions are made and scams can not occur.

I think that:

There should be ranks for hosts (even use some css). Every host should have one thread, not a thread/offer.
If that thread is getting older and the host is still alive, after 6 months it should get a higher rank, after 12 months, it should get even higher, etc...
Every rank should have different colors, or something written in the title like ( Newbie host - Half-year host - Yearold host - Veteran host etc.)

Also in the thread there should be a timeline which would be editable only by moderators. There should be written every huge problems by user complains which are trustable, like:
2011.11.16 - Boxslots hacked, lot of user lost their sites
2011.11.31 - Boxslots hacked, user data lost
2010.10.20 - Boxslots down for 11 days

Etc.

Also, there should be a user rating system, five star method, which is only available for users with 50+ posts, so even new hosts would have the chance to get good ratings, but clearly, old hosts will have an upper hand... BUT this way with the timeline every of their huge mistakes will be there above the first post.

Getting KWWH involved again.

That's where the problem is.
Imagine what would happen if tomorrow some new Webmaster site comes up, that has Free Membership, Verified Webhosts (Few hosts but less scam), Uploader exchange, Free uploading bots etc.
I am sure people will move away from KWWH.

If they can do that then good on them but will they have the outstanding coders that are here? Will they have the member base with all the knowledge contained? No!

You could argue the same for the WHCMS rule.
People buying hosting, should be smart enough to check if a Webhost has a valid WHCMS license.

This is why there is a sticky post about it so as people can check for themselves, KWWH and the staff do not do this themselves.

You might as well say, there should not be a Password Retrieval system on KWWH.
People should be smart enough to save their password securely in multiple places.

See the trend here ?

Quite frankly no. The password retrieval system is something which by definition is directly related to KWWH and a users account here. Therefore it is something that KWWH have to deal with whereas hosting is something that they are not directly involved in and nor should they be for reasons I have already pointed out.

The best idea I have heard till now.
It will be somewhat like Katz.cd

You are more likely to find a better download link from a 4* or a 5* Katz site than a 1* site.
Same idea can be applied here.
I wish el_j were here

That is still getting KWWH involved in a direct manner which could leave themselves open for all sorts of things (non of them good).

The simple truth (imho) is that the only way to be certain scamming does not happen is to remove everything from the BST section and the hosting section so as no transactions occur.

As always it is the minority who ruin things for the majority of people.

JGM.

[mahjong]

JGM: Yes, my idea needs KWWHunctions interaction, as in the title it is not specified that it is out of the possibilities.
Anyway, any usable idea would need the help of KWWHunction staff.

If we want to make a method with the less staff interaction, then the best way is to make the thread much more "web2", allow users to rate hosters.
For example:
1 host / 1 thread
5 star rating next to the hosters thread title
First post is the offer of the host, then first page of the forum is ordered by: most upvoted comments (from second it can be /time/ linear), although it would need a comment up/down voting system (votes older then 1 month can be deleted, so only the newest, freshest useful comments would be on the first page - thats quite like a timeline without staff)

Anyway: if you want to use the easiest way, which needs the less staff interaction, only voting plugins can help with a strict(er) restriction on who can vote. (user with x post registered since y time, etc)

So no, without interaction noting will change and the whole feedback thread should be deleted, if only those ideas are useful which do not need any staff interaction - as in that case the goal can be achieved in that minute.

[Siruthuli]

Some of my ideas.

1. All threads in the hosting section must be manually verified by staff before being posted.
2. No host less than 1 month is allowed to post.
3. Probationers or members with less than 20 odd posts can not sell.
4. Host must have atleast x(10,15,20...) clients already before making the post (evidence of this must be sent to a member of staff)
5. They must have site proof to show that they own the domain, like for the one when selling domains.
6. Trial accounts must be available for 6 months of their existence if they are a new company.
7. Delete all comments made by probationers in hosting section, as I have seen some "sudden" appearance of a probationer popping up to support the host.
8. All their different types of services must be in one thread. So in each section of the hosting category's there is only one thread for a host.
9. If the host is having too many problems, members can report this, after x amount of valid reports, the hosts thread will be removed for too much problems.
10. If a host is found to be overselling (rare case but still) in any way, they are not allowed to sell in KWWH, their thread removed and deleted
11. The host must have a running support. Any host which fails to reply to a member within 2 days should be removed. Members could help report these problems.

A sample method of the process of creating a hosting thread in KWWH.
1. Make the thread.
2. PM any mod with evidence of site ownership and shows their post.
3. A moderator checks that thread, and makes a comment to state that this person is a verified site owner & he has followed all the KWWH rules till then. And that KWWH gives him permission to go ahead with it. (Something along the lines of this...)

New Types of "abuse" to be added (Consequence = Hosting Thread removed)
1. Overselling
2. Not Replying to Support
3. Self reviews in different accounts or by staff
4. Suspension of Clients account without valid reason

These rules/options can be amended in any way, if not good

This overall does not bring KWWHunction into the support.
It helps to protects the KWWH members from being scammed.
It helps remove hosts which are not worthy.
It helps to limit the amount of hosts which advertise in that section.

Hopefully the amount of people being scammed reduces
But of course removing scams totally is virtually impossible ...

hope we get a solution soon.

[vgnheart]

@Siruthuli, You said no overselling. So openvz vps providers should not be allowed to post on KWWH ?

It looks like everyone suggested that KWWH Mods must spend more time on Moderating Web hosting section. Is that possible ? Every Mods here in KWWH are already busy and they got their personal life too.

[Siruthuli]

It looks like a lot of work from the outline, but it isn't really.

With members support, this could be easily done

Of course they dont have to do all this rubbish in one go, as there may be one abuser one day or so.
They need accept or reject posts...

I dunno how the mods system works in KWWH, hopefully some mod replys

this could be a way, if manageable
its just a suggestion

Overselling, I meant like where you got a person hosting 1000 websites on a 100mbit line with 2gb ram, too much

or selling 100 rapidleech on 100mbit line
something like that.

[kewld00d]

Banning overselling is incredibly unrealistic. The truth is that every shared web host oversells, especially disk space.

There is nothing seriously wrong with the current hosting forum. It is a fair and free market. If anything, an unofficial but related independent ranking site should be set up. This independent website can certify the credibility of hosts, users can take this in account or are free it ignore it.

[cvrle77]

well, to some ppl you need to say 100 times same thing all over again, and they wont understand a single word of what you said

[RT]

-Don't buy hosting from a company that started 2 days ago.
-Don't buy hosting from a user that registered yesterday.
-Don't buy $1 hosting and expect 100% uptime, fast servers.
-Don't buy hosting from a host with broken English.
-Don't buy hosting from companies providing unlimited packages.
-Don't buy hosting from companies with .info domains.
-Don't buy hosting from anyone before you ask around, google for some reviews and get the smallest package for testing for a start, then you can upgrade when/if you're satisfied.
-Don't buy hosting from a company that can't afford a decent design.

Didn't know we need written rules to use common sense.